Speaking of collar grabs...

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Speaking of collar grabs...

Postby Box Dad » Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:59 pm

I know that you can't pull someone from behind by the collar, but I saw it done from the front this weekend. Same ruling? The player was pulled down by the front, not jerked back or anything.
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Re: Speaking of collar grabs...

Postby fencewire » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:07 pm

Legal.... As described...

Horse Collar Tackle

All players are prohibited from grabbing the inside back collar of the shoulder pads or jersey, or the inside collar of the side of the shoulder pads or jersey, and immediately pulling the ball carrier down. This does not apply to a ball carrier, including a potential passer, who is inside the tackle box (Rule 2-34). Note that the tackle box disintegrates when the ball leaves it.
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Re: Speaking of collar grabs...

Postby TheRef59 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:38 pm

The Horsecollar rule is one of the most missapplied rules there is. No two officials call it exactly the same. Each officials deffinition of being immediately pulled down is different. They either need to make it illegal to grab the collar or completely do away with one of the most useless rules in the book. I'm sorry if i sound negative about it, but it's the truth. You can horsecollar a runner or QB if they are in the box. What makes that less dangerous? NOTHING. What make it less injurious if a tackler rides the back of the carrier and then pulls him down by the collar. NOTHING, but it's legal. The rule as written is crap. Again, I appologize for sounding negative, but I'm tired of the arguments and dissagreements that go on all the time about it. I'm also sorry for the misspellings, I'm also tired.
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Re: Speaking of collar grabs...

Postby JasonTX » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:34 pm

In agreement with TheRef59. With that said, the rule is someone acting as a deterant. Players are starting to have a better approach to tackling and are staying clear away from the collar because they just aren't sure how it will be called. Perhaps that was the intention of the rule makers. Don't put your hand in the fire because you never know if you will get burnt. Sometimes you might and sometime you won't. Are you willing to take that chance?
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Re: Speaking of collar grabs...

Postby HisTeam » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:50 pm

However, the spirit of the rule, which I have sen called/not called, is to keep the tackler from coming down on the back of the legs resulting in knee and back injury. You can grab into the collar, slow the runner and then tackle the runner without endangering the knees. Its the end of the tackle that should dictate the call not the initial contact. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: Speaking of collar grabs...

Postby kbjoe1 » Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:01 pm

the more that people keep placing rules on the game the more they change the game and for the most not the better. i saw a call the otherday they flaged someone for blocking away from the play... what is this crap with sixman reversing the field is how teams win. they run all over the field each play? how is the one blocking suppose to know where the ball carier is at anygiven moment?

if you dont want to be hit play on the sidelines.
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Re: Speaking of collar grabs...

Postby CowboyP » Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:49 pm

kbjoe1 wrote:the more that people keep placing rules on the game the more they change the game and for the most not the better. i saw a call the otherday they flaged someone for blocking away from the play... what is this crap with sixman reversing the field is how teams win. they run all over the field each play? how is the one blocking suppose to know where the ball carier is at anygiven moment?

if you dont want to be hit play on the sidelines.

I agree with this. IMO, unless the block is obviously intended to injure, it shouldn't be flagged.
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Re: Speaking of collar grabs...

Postby Stripes » Wed Nov 16, 2011 11:10 am

kbjoe1 wrote:the more that people keep placing rules on the game the more they change the game and for the most not the better. i saw a call the otherday they flaged someone for blocking away from the play... what is this crap with sixman reversing the field is how teams win. they run all over the field each play? how is the one blocking suppose to know where the ball carier is at anygiven moment?

if you dont want to be hit play on the sidelines.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the call you're talking about is an "outside-in" block below the waist. With the changes to the rules on blocking below the waist this year, the rule have been complicated and officials are having great difficulty enforcing the rule as written. Seven-man officiating crews on the collegiate level can barely keep up with it, so four and five-man crews in HS games (especially on topsy-turvy six-man football plays) are having murderous time.
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Re: Speaking of collar grabs...

Postby kbjoe1 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:45 am

stripes i agree with you. and if it is only called a small portion of the time then it can influence the game especially when we are looking at teams scoring every 3 to 5 offensive plays it could cost a touchdown thus costing a game.

but really what i was refering to and i saw several called this year was blocks above the waist but what the refree stated that it was a continuation of a block away from the play. this should never be called. in every game you see someone reverse their field thus how can anyone state that a block deserves a penalty because the blocking was away from where the play was intended
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Re: Speaking of collar grabs...

Postby Stripes » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:20 pm

When it comes to blocks that happen on the "backside" of a play, there's no hard and fast rule officials follow. As a general rule, we call the things that happen at the "point of attack," meaning that they have an obvious, direct and immediate effect on the development on the play. Six-man football is difficult because plays can go all over the field and reverse course at any time, but we can't predict what may or may not happen on a play. If you have a sweep to the right and the end on the fair left side does a little jersey grabbin' on the backside, that's going to be let go. If they play shifts back to his direction and he's still holding on, it will begin to affect the play and you'll more than likely see a flag.

The backside stuff will be called regardless of the position of the ball if it is dangerous enough. Doesn't matter where the ball it, you can't just pick up the other kid and slam him down or take a cheap shot when he's clearly not part of the play and isn't even attempting to do anything.
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Re: Speaking of collar grabs...

Postby kbjoe1 » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:53 pm

hey you guys that answer my questions on calls just want to say thanks .. i know that i have read your responces to me and to others and its kinda funny when situations come up during a game and i hear the fans yelling, i just quietly talk to the ones close to me and explain thats not what the rule says or means... anyway Thanks,,, yep old devils can still learn a thing or two hahahaha
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Re: Speaking of collar grabs...

Postby Stripes » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:30 am

How often are you guys seeing a horsecollar tackle being flagged in the games you're watching this year?
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Re: Speaking of collar grabs...

Postby High Plains Drifter » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:43 am

Seen two flagged, but neither one was really a horse collar. Heard many scream the H word whenever a tackle is high. I think that a public service announcement should be made before every game, with white hat demonstrating what a horse collar is. Would be like the old over and back call in hoops, so the fans and coaches might have a clue. Just saying. Ha
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Re: Speaking of collar grabs...

Postby CowboyP » Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:24 pm

High Plains Drifter wrote:Seen two flagged, but neither one was really a horse collar. Heard many scream the H word whenever a tackle is high. I think that a public service announcement should be made before every game, with white hat demonstrating what a horse collar is. Would be like the old over and back call in hoops, so the fans and coaches might have a clue. Just saying. Ha

That isn't a bad idea.
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Re: Speaking of collar grabs...

Postby Stripes » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:42 am

I can think of a few white hats that I'd like to horsecollar. Not mine, of course...
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